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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  19:18:47  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
If absolutely nothing else (for example if all John's ideas go kaput),...

It's always good to plan for contingencies...

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  19:48:32  Show Profile
quote:

Jim, Now take this slow and in the vein that it is intended...


Dear Gentlemen of the IA|AI.
I signed on this morning with a prepared message apologizing for my adolescent enthusiasm last night. I have beaten my "brain-fart" into some semblence of reality and don't think it will hold up. There is an efficiency in storage and access--but not enough to worry about even if there were an advantage in another area. And such an advantage is not apparent to me. So I am going to set my immediate suggestion aside as not worth pursuing at the moment.

John, thank you for your kind comments. As a reference I understood matrix math in the 8th grade under the tutelage of an amazing math nut of a teacher. By the time reached college it was a vague memory, now it is something that turns my stomach. Every time you hear me talk about matrices it is always in the context of organizing "things" in a descriptive and easily accessible way that also provides some control to the outcome.

A little while ago I mentioned a model analogous to the electron cloud concept with shells having differing influence on the activity of the molecule and on the behavior of the other shells. Last night was the result of a sudden and incorrect thought that I could simplify the picture significantly. Tried, didn't work.

Soo, the bigger, 3-d interactions between 9 different variables mediated by personality is for the future. But I know my ding-bat mind isn't going to let go until it is sure it can do it or not.

During my evening/morning of sketching and counting vertices I thought to wonder why I cared. Why am I so focussed on order, or control, or whatever you call it? AHA! came to an answer:

To me, a Vh driven conversation is easy, no problem keeping the Vh human sounding relevant and intelligent or passing the blame to the human on the other end. Once it is turned around the world changes. As I see it there is an infinite number of inputs (well lets settle on infinity-1) and the outputs have to be relevant, intelligent, human phrased, and express the variability of human conversation.

The mental process I have been using is: Infinite input --> translate to small number of standard meanings --> translate to a sufficiently large number of responses that the outcome feels like it is infinite.

I think this, in combination with a general narrowing of range of subjects for each Vh Personality, is a workable solution that will make the Vh Very human and acceptable.

But, that approach will not allow spontaneous growth, not without a Vh capability to rewrite either code or the translation process incoming and outgoing, especially outgoing. Since spontaneous growth is the essence of our long-term desire, doofus here has been stomping on his own left foot. No, nobody but me told me that.

quote:
Again, Jim, keep an eye to the future expansion into 3-D without letting it distract you from your efforts on the 2-D matrix of today.



I will John. My proclivity to view obviously randomly generated output as undesireable in our efforts should not drive my head into corners where growth is blocked. The problem we have been working on all along has been the search for a bounded system that allows growth -- with limits, some strictly imposed.

On we keep, truckin we are. The future we build. Hard to see is the future. Always moving it is.


Jim
IA|AI


Uncle Jim (e=mc2)

Edited by - laackejim on Jan 10 2006 19:54:02
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2006 :  06:18:53  Show Profile
Thanks for typing that long explanation, John, it has enhanced my understanding of your project considerably.

quote:
But, that approach will not allow spontaneous growth, not without a Vh capability to rewrite either code or the translation process incoming and outgoing, especially outgoing. Since spontaneous growth is the essence of our long-term desire, doofus here has been stomping on his own left foot.

I understand how you feel, Jim - my own project suffers very much from foot-stomping. At this stage I have few useful ideas for actual learning, and the few ideas I do have seem more tacked-on to my core project, than the core of my project! But it's something to do until I understand John's ideas
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2006 :  06:21:45  Show Profile
quote:
Of course, there is always a next step, just like the dimensions 1x4x9x... of the monolith in 2001 and 2010.

May our V-Humans not suffer the fate of the monolith. But I suppose all parents feel that way
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2006 :  16:50:32  Show Profile
Okay Gentlemen of the IA|AI Forum.

Here are two submissions.

Sorry about the size, the small ones do not make it off the web page for some reason and Son will be asleep until hmmmm 1:30pm after working all night (wonder where he got that from?)

First is the draft logo, suggested by none other than the hologenic man himself, highly modified following the suggestions of Carson, whose rationalizations as to why she should be included in the logo have temorarily been satisfied.

(http://andfather.laacke.com/logo1_small.jpg)

Second is an introduction to Carson. She is the early- to mid-50's woman who hosts the technical manuals for the programs I wrote for pay (before succumbing to the allure of IA|AI and associated benefits.) Carson walks, talks, crawls behind and below menus, points out features on the terrain, and even goes skinny dipping in a mountain lake. All walking and talking are accompanied with smiles winks etc. but no lipsynch (haven't gotten there yet). She has a sense of humor but is a bit crusty occasionally and if you get unacceptably (grossly) intimate, she simply turns you off. She has not made it to the operational level of "agent friend" like yours, but those are my limitations at the moment.
Hello is from an animated sequence where she looks at you, smiles, laughs, then steps forward to shake your hand. There is no verbal laughter I am sorry to say.
(http://andfather.laacke.com/hello_small.jpg)

Carson is a composite of two women here in the valley, one an extreme skier, mt climber, horse rider--the other a rancher and general "hard body" worker. To be honest, there is nothing exagerated about Carson relative to the women who were her inspiration. Except for the yellow/tan of her complexion which my Son hates.



Jim





Uncle Jim (e=mc2)

Edited by - laackejim on Jan 12 2006 22:09:26
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2006 :  21:42:36  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
Jim, in a word, OUTSTANDING...



\o o/ \o/ *\o/* \o/ \o o/





John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 12 2006 :  10:32:09  Show Profile
Nice work
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art
Moderator



USA
371 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2006 :  03:07:11  Show Profile
Jim,

As I've been following this thread I've found it rather interesting and also like the Logo, however, (don't you just hate that word, because it is always the harbinger of some form of criticism), Your use of Bryce 3D is creative, but being a realist and a somewhat symetrical person, shouldn't both mirrors reflect the same image (with trees in front of letters on left and right) or was there some "logic" in it that I missed?
Sorry for the run on sentence, but I enjoy doing it from time to time simply because I can! Also knowing that my former English professor, Mr. Gratton is not going to be there to pounce upon me...then again...I believe he's most likely dead as that was many years ago and I don't think he'd be up for any pouncing.

Nice work, however with concept, name, logo, etc.

OK...I'll close the door on my way out!

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2006 :  04:24:29  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
shouldn't both mirrors reflect the same image (with trees in front of letters on left and right)

I noticed that too, but I felt that it falls directly into the concept that we are creating "simulations" of a reality reflected.

Her knees are also not "reflected", but again, it has a very "Sureal" feel that seems to capture the essence of our little intellectual adventure.

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
Go to Top of Page

laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2006 :  05:43:16  Show Profile
Aha! The big red thingee in the middle of the mirrors is the structure that forms the letters AI. The "seasoned but still fresh" lady is sitting on the real structure. With a mirror on each side you should see reflected the mirror image of what is visible from that side. That's why I put in the tree in the first place to make the sides visibly different (the clouds are different too if you look). The lady on top is correctly imaged by side and orientation.

You have correctly pinned the use of Bryce Supplemented with Photoshop, something I have been doing for year for other purposes. I have also used Poser for several years, although the little buggy things have irritated me to the point that I am switching to Cinema4D for some of the work, especially facial appearance. Don't know if I will be successful but my Son tells me I better do it.

The thing I like most about the logo is that it can be just as easily read as International Association of Artifical Intelligence OR International Association of Artifical Intelligences.

JIm
quote:
Originally posted by art

Jim,

As I've been following this thread I've found it rather interesting and also like the Logo, however, (don't you just hate that word, because it is always the harbinger of some form of criticism), Your use of Bryce 3D is creative, but being a realist and a somewhat symetrical person, shouldn't both mirrors reflect the same image (with trees in front of letters on left and right) or was there some "logic" in it that I missed?
Sorry for the run on sentence, but I enjoy doing it from time to time simply because I can! Also knowing that my former English professor, Mr. Gratton is not going to be there to pounce upon me...then again...I believe he's most likely dead as that was many years ago and I don't think he'd be up for any pouncing.

Nice work, however with concept, name, logo, etc.

OK...I'll close the door on my way out!



Uncle Jim (e=mc2)

Edited by - laackejim on Jan 14 2006 05:47:05
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2006 :  06:22:31  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
Aha! The big red thingee in the middle of the mirrors is the structure that forms the letters AI. The "seasoned but still fresh" lady is sitting on the real structure. With a mirror on each side you should see reflected the mirror image of what is visible from that side.

You got me!

I love it when something is so obvious that I don't see it.

I was actually wondering just what that middle structure was too...

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2006 :  11:27:52  Show Profile
Ohh! The red bit is "AI" side-on! I wondered what it was, and why it seemed to have blocks top and bottom

Looks like you're too clever for us all, Jim I'm really feeling artificially intelligent tonight....

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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 15 2006 :  15:46:01  Show Profile
Son Of a Gun. (consider all caps) I surprised you guys. Hot diggety dog. Thanks. I appreciate that a lot. I wish I could contribute more substance to our efforts right now but I am going to have to follow my own path alongside you for a while. My brain just doesn't dance with code the way your's do. I have a different tempo, one that fits better into a different language. I hope I can catch up. When I get more function going or see something I have some idea about I will drop it in. In the meantime I will continue to stick my nose in with little thingees because associating with you is stimulating, very stimulating.

Jim
IA|AI

Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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mikecsitpro
Curious Member



USA
25 Posts

Posted - Jul 29 2006 :  10:02:20  Show Profile  Visit mikecsitpro's Homepage
This may be premature as I still have a lot of threads to read through, though it seems many of the threads ended in January or February, this one particular...what every came of the idea for the IA|AI name.

Is it still in the works? Or is this forum the IA|AI?

Anyway I like the name and what it stands for, and just wanted to know what came of it?

Spoon Boy: Do not try and bend the spoon...
that is impossible!
Instead...only try to realize the truth...

Neo: What truth?

Spoon Boy: There is no spoon

Neo: There is no spoon?

Spoon Boy: Then you will see,
that it is not the spoon that bends,
it is only yourself.

-The Matrix
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Jul 29 2006 :  19:40:05  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
It's still around. Note my signature...

The IA|AI is an underlying glue for the participating forum members. It's sort of an unofficial-official club name. If you find the thread elsewhere, I give some insights into it and welcome you as well...
quote:
By the way, Mike, It may be time to welcome you into the dubious IA|AI. It's an inside joke of sorts meaning "the International Association for the Artificially Intelligent". On good days and to be polite, we say it stands for the "International Association for Artificial Intelligence", but most days it's more fun to just be "Artificially Intelligent".


John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Edited by - hologenicman on Jul 29 2006 19:57:26
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