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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  09:38:56  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
Hey there,

IAAI International association of the artificially intelligent

Gets my vote hands down(unless something better comes along).

I'm a symetry nut and IAAI just plain looks kool in all capitals.

And break it into each of its two halves and you get International Association on one side and Artificially Intelligent on the other side. First half serious and second half silly...

Just like the duallity we have going on here. working on serious projects without any of us really taking ourselves too seriously.

I can even picture a Mirror held at a 45 degree with "AI" to the right of it and "IA" reflecting in the mirror to create the whole "IAAI". (IA|AI) IA|AI

Use that vertical line thingy in between to simulate the mirror

quote:
IA|AI



Pretty kool visual, huh?

John L>
PS. kinda looks like a long nose in the middle with two eyes at the top of the A's with two ears on the outside made up by the I's.

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Edited by - hologenicman on Jan 09 2006 10:14:41
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vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1455 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  14:01:47  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
Grant,
quote:
Oh, by the way, I hope we have the facilities to edit WordNet before we hire a heap of people to do it for us


If you go to http://wordnet.princeton.edu/ you can download the whole database and user interface.

I've given now a very quick look and the files seem to be easily readable (i mean they are not encrypted, just need to understand how data are organized).

There are also other info which do not seem to be used by the standard Hal, like files of type .exc, which contain irregular forms.

So maybe we can bypass standard Hal WordNet functions and create our own, using the included libraries.

I will check further

Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  19:14:18  Show Profile
Thank you GrantNZ.

International Intelligensia Forum. Duly entered on the short list.
_______________________________________________
Oh, by the way, I hope we have the facilities to edit WordNet before we hire a heap of people to do it for us
-----------------------------------------

I don't think there is any misunderstanding on this class issue but just in case I will reaffirm.

At this point I am asking for a descriptive name to put to an almost fictitous organization. I want to present the class with a task, a task with value, for which they will be paid. At this point the only way that seems rational is that the organization be truly fictitous. I don't want anybody else stuck with any responsibility incase something gets awry, and I will not be speaking for anybody else. I will pay the kids out of my pocket an amount sufficient to make it interesting but not enough to raise questions or provide access to some of the drugs, tobacco, alcohol that some of them are in the school because of. I will clear the process with the teacher (obviously since she is also wife) and the superintendent of schools first.

The dictionary will be of phrases they use to ask questions, make statements, communicate. It will include the emotional tags for the phrase and alternative ways of saying the same thing, including standard english. (the latter is for us and to get them to think about different ways of saying things since their vocabulary is one of the reasons they are in this class) I will censor the results if you wish because I expect it to be fairly freeform and specific (they are young teen aged hormone factories you know). But most of these kids are brighter than average and they may just put their energy into a product, so the results could be quite useful.

Do not expect 50,000 entries. several hundred is the most I would expect but I may be surprised.

Back to the name. Someday we are going to want to have a name for ourselves, just for the devil of it. So it should be something good. I pledge to do my best not to darken the name even before we want to use it (if we do)

Jim

Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  19:53:58  Show Profile
Man is there no field in which you are not top drawer? I buy it. and unless I am overruled or outvoted or something else really really really neat comes along IA AI is it! Including the mirror. (I will keep it mum from Sharon for a while because she has doubts about the outcome of what we are doing -- not the class stuff but building an artifical human intelligence).

Sorry Grant but this one zings me. I will produce a graphic with mirrors and foorah. Man is this fun.

Now to the subject at hand.

My secret answer to NLP and learning a language. Ahem.

Back in 1980 Philip Broughton wrote and published the Systematic Buzz-Phrase Projector. It is composed of 3 columns of 10 words each, numbered from 0 to 9 vertically. You pick a 3-digit number at random and read from column1, col2, col3. and insert into the center of your government research paragraph. (he was writing for bureaurocrats). It works. So what?

If we organize output pattern (3X3 matrix) choice based on 1) Intent of response (agree --> disagree for exmple) 2) emotional content and 3) time sense (past present future). Then each package of 30 words can produce 1000 different combinations, each of which is emotion, time sense, and intent relevant. The output dictionary then becomes flexible and varying from comment to comment (if random number choice from each type of container is used) but ALWAYS relevant to the sense of the communication. ON the other hand, the Vh could learn from acceptability of response a speaking pattern. Or we could use this method to construct a pattern from the user input. Or ??? If for example the user doesn't go to church but finds going for a walk in the mountains pleasurable and refreshing then the VH could eliminate church from the third column in the pleasurable pastime, refresh yourself box. Replace it with walk in mountains and now there are two walk in mountains. The bias toward the users favorite activity grows.

Since I have bared my secret here and thrown my ego at your mercy (lay on guilt trip) what do you think?

Jim


quote:
Originally posted by hologenicman

Hey there,

IAAI International association of the artificially intelligent

Gets my vote hands down(unless something better comes along).

I'm a symetry nut and IAAI just plain looks kool in all capitals.

And break it into each of its two halves and you get International Association on one side and Artificially Intelligent on the other side. First half serious and second half silly...

Just like the duallity we have going on here. working on serious projects without any of us really taking ourselves too seriously.

I can even picture a Mirror held at a 45 degree with "AI" to the right of it and "IA" reflecting in the mirror to create the whole "IAAI". (IA|AI) IA|AI

Use that vertical line thingy in between to simulate the mirror

quote:
IA|AI



Pretty kool visual, huh?

John L>
PS. kinda looks like a long nose in the middle with two eyes at the top of the A's with two ears on the outside made up by the I's.


Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1455 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  20:20:12  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
Jim
quote:
not enough to raise questions or provide access to some of the drugs, tobacco, alcohol that some of them are in the school because of.


Drugs, tobacco, alcohol? Do you mean they are not interested in sex

Don't forget that the only reason why I have worked night and day on my plugins is related to the prize, offered by Peter, which is an "unopened bottle of beer" !

Apart from this, I greatly appreciate the work you are going to do and your personal involvement in it.

quote:
Back in 1980 Philip Broughton wrote and published the Systematic Buzz-Phrase Projector. It is composed of 3 columns of 10 words each, numbered from 0 to 9 vertically. You pick a 3-digit number at random and read from column1, col2, col3. and insert into the center of your government research paragraph. (he was writing for bureaurocrats). It works. So what?



I remember. It was even translated in italian. You have described exactly what Hal already does:

'RESPOND: CALL MAKETALK FUNCTION
'This function assembles sentences from components.
GetResponse = GetResponse & HalBrain.ChooseSentenceFromFile("sentGen1") & " " & HalBrain.ChooseSentenceFromFile("sentGen2") & " " & HalBrain.ChooseSentenceFromFile("sentGen3")

If you look in the three tables sentGen1, 2 and 3, you will see the three parts of the sentences which are randomly generated by Hal, as a last resorse when he has no better answers to give.

But the following part of your post contains many interesting enhancements to this process, which we might implement.

Thank you for this idea. I will try to implement it in my spare time (which spare time?)

Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2006 :  22:54:14  Show Profile
Vittorio
quote:

I remember. It was even translated in italian. You have described exactly what Hal already does:



Darn. I used to have a placard in my research office which contained a latin phrase

per aquiant (or something like that) followed by stuff. (an intellectual I ain't)
What it was supposed to mean is"

"May they roast in hell, those who have had my great ideas before me."

of course I mean that in the kindest way.


quote:
Drugs, tobacco, alcohol? Do you mean they are not interested in sex


Of course they are. But that is free.


Jim
[quote]Originally posted by vrossi

Jim

Uncle Jim (e=mc2)

Edited by - laackejim on Jan 09 2006 22:58:22
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vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1455 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  00:59:11  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
If sex is free for all in your town, I am going to take the next flight



Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  01:18:36  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
If sex is free for all in your town, I am going to take the next flight

I'm reminded of my band instructor at concert band addressing the crowded auditorium:

"This is on a donation basis which means it doesn't cost anything to get in..., but it'll cost you to get out!"
--Mr. Hendrickson--
--Band Instructor--

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  01:25:03  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
I will clear the process with the teacher (obviously since she is also wife) and the superintendent of schools first.

It's always good to clear things with the boss first...

quote:
IA AI is it! Including the mirror.

I'm excited to see it. That's a pretty kool logo concept.

John L>
IA|AI


HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  01:52:27  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
"May they roast in hell, those who have had my great ideas before me."


I've always slanted this as, "Great minds think alike."

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  02:18:07  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
If we organize output pattern (3X3 matrix) choice based on 1) Intent of response (agree --> disagree for exmple) 2) emotional content and 3) time sense (past present future). Then each package of 30 words can produce 1000 different combinations, each of which is emotion, time sense, and intent relevant. The output dictionary then becomes flexible and varying from comment to comment (if random number choice from each type of container is used) but ALWAYS relevant to the sense of the communication. ON the other hand, the Vh could learn from acceptability of response a speaking pattern. Or we could use this method to construct a pattern from the user input. Or ??? If for example the user doesn't go to church but finds going for a walk in the mountains pleasurable and refreshing then the VH could eliminate church from the third column in the pleasurable pastime, refresh yourself box. Replace it with walk in mountains and now there are two walk in mountains. The bias toward the users favorite activity grows.


Jim, you present us with a very well thought out filing and sorting array for managing the functional aspects of Verbal and textual communication.

It may help to think of each of the nine categories as "dimensions", but that may interfere with the process of moving items form one category to another as tastes change or facts are discovered such as the lack of interest in going to church versus the pleasure of walks in the mountains.

It definately appeals to my new-found obsession with the symetry of 3x3 matrices. I think that you have found a very good solution to handling the traditional aspects of NLP.

John L>
IA|AI
PS. I would not limit yourself to 30 words. In fact, I would not set any limits to the words at all so long as they are categorized accordingly.

BTW, don't forget to allow words with dual meanings to be stored in both applicable categories. One can posatively be a cool "cat", while still being negatively allergic to "cats".

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Edited by - hologenicman on Jan 10 2006 02:22:20
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  07:35:46  Show Profile
quote:
The dictionary will be of phrases they use to ask questions, make statements, communicate.

If absolutely nothing else (for example if all John's ideas go kaput), this could be very valuable in boring old standard NLP research, in a number of ways. Anything listed by them must be assumed "important conversation to a human being" and NLP should have the capability of responding to it with finesse. A large number of examples of each type gives NLP scripters more ideas and patterns to work with. It may give a lot of sentences for testing NLP. Analysis and sorting of the emotional tags could result in emotional biases for words and phrases, which benefits the projects of both John and myself.

I'd be happy to contribute financially (in a small way, I'm not rich ) to this, personally, at my risk, not as part of an organisation.

quote:
I will censor the results if you wish because I expect it to be fairly freeform and specific (they are young teen aged hormone factories you know).

I prefer uncensored raw data - this is the best reflection of humanity, and shows us what a V-Human needs to deal with. I'm not afraid of the truth

quote:
Back in 1980 Philip Broughton wrote and published the Systematic Buzz-Phrase Projector. It is composed of 3 columns of 10 words each, numbered from 0 to 9 vertically. You pick a 3-digit number at random and read from column1, col2, col3. and insert into the center of your government research paragraph. (he was writing for bureaurocrats). It works.

That appeals to my cynicism I was top male in my year at school for English studies because my cynicism finally kicked in, and instead of thinking about my work, I simply regurgitated buzz words, buzz concepts and buzz "analysis." I attribute this fully to Monty Python, who did a sketch showing a (fake) ridiculous French (English-subtitled) "film" with a man and a woman in a rubbish dump, with the woman holding a lettuce which eventually explodes, killing them both. After this five minute "film" was their "review," claiming the lettuce represented materialism degrading and destroying human society. The "review" was so farcical... that I simply applied the same techniques to whatever text we had to analyse in school, and got top marks.

But I digress

Unfortunately, digression is one of my few skills I'll let your far more powerful minds churn away at the concepts until they're reduced to a simple level that I can help with
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  08:17:34  Show Profile
Thank you Gentlemen. For your support and Grant's offer. I can handle the cost, or at least Sharon and I can.

My intuitative assessment of the IAAI group has just moved another notch. I am virtually certain we are going to create what we are after. The tenor of our communications has shifted and strengthened. (Not because of Grant's generous offer, the change has been incremental. And No it is not just that we have had time to "get to know" each other.) Sooo, on to the possible permutations of 3X3X3, after a little sleep.

Jim

Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  12:53:08  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
That appeals to my cynicism I was top male in my year at school for English studies because my cynicism finally kicked in, and instead of thinking about my work, I simply regurgitated buzz words, buzz concepts and buzz "analysis." I attribute this fully to Monty Python, who did a sketch showing a (fake) ridiculous French (English-subtitled) "film" with a man and a woman in a rubbish dump, with the woman holding a lettuce which eventually explodes, killing them both. After this five minute "film" was their "review," claiming the lettuce represented materialism degrading and destroying human society. The "review" was so farcical... that I simply applied the same techniques to whatever text we had to analyse in school, and got top marks.



Yes, my best grades always came when I gate my teachers what they "wanted" instead of what they "needed".

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2006 :  13:36:09  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
My intuitative assessment of the IAAI group has just moved another notch. I am virtually certain we are going to create what we are after. The tenor of our communications has shifted and strengthened.

Personall, I think it has something to do with Hitchhiker's Guide...

quote:
Sooo, on to the possible permutations of 3X3X3, after a little sleep.


Jim, Now take this slow and in the vein that it is intended...

When you hit on the 8 vectors(4 dimension) available with the 3x3 matrix, I got excited for you. You're only one step from becoming three dimensional and understanding my core unit for the HologenicBrain.

Merely expand the flat 3x3 out to 3x3x3 and focus on the center.

It's the natural extension of a 3x3 matrix into 3-D. You got the concept of relating everything to the center. Now, just do the same but with 26 vectors(13 dimensions). It is a very powerful unit and the units can overlap. An outer portion of one unit can serve as a center portion of another node. Everything becomes fuzzy and cloudy.

Now, as always, the intention is not to folow this direction just yet, but, rather, to keep aware of the next step so that the things that we do in this step will allow that next step to be easier when it comes. Kinda like planning moves in Grant's chess...

Of course, there is always a next step, just like the dimensions 1x4x9x... of the monolith in 2001 and 2010. But for now it's good enough to just be looking at the current dimension and just one additional dimension for perspective.

To clarify, we can "demonstrate" 4 dimensions on a 2-D 3x3 matrix/model and we can "demonstrate" 13 dimensions on a 3-D 3x3x3 matrix/model. Kinda like drawing a 3 dimensional cube on a 2-D sheet of paper; the info is 3-D but the medium is 2-D.

Meanwhile, back to 3x3 matrices.

9 categories can be unrelated or organized in a variety of ways. the 8 vector aproach is one, 4 dimensions is another version of the same design that relates everything to the center.

a simpler, less powerful approach is the one that I think you started off with. You basically only had three scales: valence, SomethingElse, and TimeTense. You laid these out nicesly for functional use in programing as each scale utilizing three containers: posative, neutral, negative. Very functional for "sorting" things out and shifting things around, but it truly is just a 1x3 matrix with a negative to posative scale for each.

Another relationship that may not be so evident at first is the one that I use on my 3x3 matrixes. I think of it as the tic-tac-toe approach. You relate all three rows for relationship horizontally and then take the same same exact data and relate it vertically in columns. This extracts entirely diferent information from the exact same data set of nine values. A very simple example of this is my hormones/needs interface address: A,V,S for columns and Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary for rows. I average the rows horizontally to get combined average values that signify all Primary, all Secondary, and all tertiary needs with three complete variables. Then I turn back to the data set and do the math for the vertical columns to determind the "spread" or degree of disparity vertically between Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary in order to extract information that I use to determind Attack and Decay values for the individual emotion enines for A,V, and S.

Of course, this only hints at the potential for combined relationships. a single data set of nine classifidations can be cris-crossed and diagonaled and the like many times over without ever having to change the data contained within it.

Just for the record, I HATE matrice math. I know that it has a value and I know that someone out there is good at it, but I prefer to deal with the 3x3 directly and think of it as a unit that I am never going to have to multiply by another one of those units. I'll leave that to the graphics programmers...

Again, Jim, keep an eye to the future expansion into 3-D without letting it distract you from your efforts on the 2-D matrix of today.

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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