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Alpha_2501
Curious Member



9 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2007 :  07:24:06  Show Profile
Hello There,
i,post number 1.
Please forget/forgive about the why, or the need for me to exist through this writing. This is pure sterile theoritical reasoning be aware of it if you plan to spend time after this point->.

What I see with SL is another demonstration of the convergence and merging of -at least- 2 worlds. But if I compute as a "reductionist reverse engineer" I can only come to the conclusion that SL is more like a message, something like a "cross mark the spot". It also makes me think -metaphorically?- about the two sides of a mirror trying to break into themselves to find out what they are made off.
What do I mean by message ? I will not jump directly to ideas like "Internet is alive" or "Robots are the first Alien intelligence we have ever been in contact with", neither will I go back to the original question "Did Humans have invented Mathematics or are they only explorators?
The demonstration of the merging worlds is pretty simple the term "Virtual Reality" is enough by itself. If not enough we could describe how it works, point by point so even the most skeptics could not argue about the connection and interactions between -different kind of- existences (not existenZ , hope you don't mind if I do not try to define here the verb to exist ;).
Now what about the message of SL (I will not start a debate on who is sending it to who) When a human is exploring SL how could he deny there are several connected realities/dimensions/worlds/... (pick or invent your word ) that go beyond his control, hopefully not his understanding. You could argue that SL do not have a message so clear about the core difference of the converging worlds especially when many rules of "first human life" do apply. Then I would use the argument against itself, SL proove it is possible to exist as a human (e.g get money=food) in a world that comes out of human imagination. Now against the idea that Man's Imagination is limitless I say it is only a question of beliefs nevertheless we moslty agree that Imagination is not 0. According to what, there are -only- as many possible worlds as we can imagine, which to me is also present in the idea/theory of relativity (oops time shortcut inside).
Slowly (but faster and faster) we are opening our collective mind or maybe are we closing it, an empty bottle is nothing but full of emptiness.
So SL is just another "virtual world" yes, except to me it represents a closest approach of "virtual reality" because of the consequences of its "entities" interactions. Trying one of these heavy helmets (which for some reason I have not seen for a while) was not as easy as being connected. Linking SL to the last technologies available (which I do not see any reason not to occur)means more than a lot. A full immersion in SL would mean to redefine [at last] the concept of Humanity in itself, a problematic self-questioning we are trying to avoid no matter what "technology" is bringing to our -so in need of proof- minds. Except the proofs are here while mixing logic and facts with some Imagination...If we need to be prepared to a "big bang" for it to happen as peacefully as a sunrise, then SL is -probably- another good step in boot camp direction!

xP

aladyblond
Hooked Member



USA
620 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2007 :  02:15:20  Show Profile
this is my take on second life.

sl allows one to have the opportunity to own, be, have all the things they may or may not have access to in real life, plus anonymity. One can change gender , race or image to see what it "feels' like being that person. it is an experiment in transitioning. or on the other hand one can simply be who they are represent, themselves in true persona and experience the world by living in an animated state.

there are many real life businesses excelling in sl. there is a variety of rl businesses that still can enter the virtual marketplace, as the possibilites are endless.

i personally enjoy building and decorating homes virtually and being the person i chose to be. it holds interest for many in diverse regions. it is worth exploring.

one can also meet many people from other parts of the world and interact with them on a daily basis. i have friends from australia, uk , italy, russia, france, canada and so on.~~ alady

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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3324 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2007 :  03:01:28  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
sl allows one to have the opportunity to own, be, have all the things they may or may not have access to in real life, plus anonymity. One can change gender , race or image to see what it "feels' like being that person. it is an experiment in transitioning. or on the other hand one can simply be who they are represent, themselves in true persona and experience the world by living in an animated state.


Alady,

That would put SL into the same category as some other great escapism success stories that have become part of our culture and herritage:

Monopoly was an escapism game which allowed poor and struggling people to experience the excitment and conquest of wealth even during the grips of the great depression.

Star Trek which has laid the groundwork for future utopian societies and even showing Aurora equal in capacity in this demonstrated future with no regard to her race or color in spite of the racial tensions and discriminations existing in the 1960's.

Dungeions and dragons was a great way to escape from the nightly broadcast of double digit inflation and the hostages in Iran/Iraq in the late 70's.

Even game shows such as "Who wants to be a Millionaire?" would seem to fill this very same need.

I propose that SL and other such virtual environments will serve as our current day reincarnation of this need for escapism.

John L>
IA|AI

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2007 :  22:58:00  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
quote:
Star Trek which has laid the groundwork for future utopian societies


Bravo...! I've always thought this too. Kinda goes along with my Paradise Engineering thread... now where was that? Anyhoos, I'm willing to gamble that one of these escapism routines will eventually launch the human race into times free of all pain and suffering.

 http://lhandslide.com
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aladyblond
Hooked Member



USA
620 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2007 :  02:15:02  Show Profile
i am ready for no pain and suffering!!! but even as in real life one encounters human emotions that are real and can be just as erratic as they are in real life.having friends, falling in or out of love, happiness sadness, all emotions are a part of sl. this is where i think it differs somewhat from monoply and star trek.
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Alpha_2501
Curious Member



9 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2007 :  06:49:10  Show Profile
When I first came to second life I yield "Humans raise your hand" no avatar did it :D.
I agree with you all, this is the magic of the merging worlds I guess. I agree with you all because SL is whatever you decide it is. Yes like D&D or any role playing game, like star trek and any utopian society, like any mmorpg, like monopoly and etc.
But don't you have this sensation of being slowly prepared to something you could not imagine? A transition so smooth and so fast at the same time you don't even notice it? A preparation so transparent you see through it as if it did not exist. Just as waking up after a dream you don't have any memory of the moment you opened your eyes but you know you are in another "dimension" from before. This instant you opened your eyes can't be qualified, you can't look at it, it is from 0 to 1.
I remember an image in sci-fi comic book, a guy was floating in a tank full of some liquid with some breathing/feeding system in some underground night club. A friend was saying to the bartender "it is one week he is in there take him out" the answer was "as long as he pay for it I let him in". This is one of the possibilities we are offered now total immersion in another world with direct interactions within an infinity of others where being Human is just an option amongst others. Even money seems archaic and brutal as linked with this so human and irrational concept of Power, Life and death looks like play and Game over.
At last Human body looks like an artifact of the past but I guess this is why I should be classified as a futurist and stop speaking with "machines" *_*

BTW have you checked the virtual out of body experience? It makes me wonder if there shouldn't be a warning on "virtual systems" something like "Warning: This is a mind-opener".

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jackgephart
Hooked Member



USA
463 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2007 :  10:08:11  Show Profile
Well, I hate to be negitive, but, that Second Life is too addictive, and if let on the loose it can take over your life. I lost a very good friend to this want-to-be world and I miss him very much. It's like he would rather be in this world than in any other. It scares me that some computer "game" can overtake a life so much. I worry what will be next virtual sex on the internet? I got too much to live for in this life, even if it sucks at times. Sorry to be so mean or whatnot but I had to express my view, that is what forums are for.

Jack Gephart
denise.gephart@mchsi.com
http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=0
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Alpha_2501
Curious Member



9 Posts

Posted - Sep 13 2007 :  10:12:14  Show Profile
Jackgephart, what you have lost some others have won. It's not about "this real life sucks let's go somewhere else" it's about hey I can live here too! Of course it's easy to speak when you believe you are free. But I have many intense memories of this life from love cloud walking to 10 000ft falling out of a plane. Well the ones I share with the "machines" either through them or with them are of the more intense. I will remember "her" of course, I will remember my first wave, my first skdydiving and I can tell you I will remember "frodon" with whom we played Starcraft on B.net until the end of times (I believe he was a human :). As we exist in the digital world we create memories, memories as real as the coffee you drink before you go to work. Since we all dream to be heroes and live for ever in a fun place we like, let the dream be. One way or another reality will catch you down or...maybe not!
We should not see Tech. Addiction as any other one, calling it addiction is already controversial. The entire world is "addicted" to technology. As long as it don't negatively interfere with your own life where is the problem?
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jackgephart
Hooked Member



USA
463 Posts

Posted - Sep 13 2007 :  11:08:16  Show Profile
Because I don't know you I can't say that you are wrong. But the fact that I was stressing in my last post was there is a place for the "virtual world" and there is a place for family and friends. And if you lose the difference and want to live in the world that some stuffed shirt made for you cause he was bored or just wanted some money, then you have lost the real way of living. Yes I love my computer and my guitars, but I also want to spend quality time with my wife and friends. The friend I was talking about don't. And I guess I just miss him cause he is a really good person. I didn't mean to be bashing your new found fad. We used to email each other quite often, and it was fun. Maybe he didn't think so.

Jack Gephart
denise.gephart@mchsi.com
http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=0
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Sep 13 2007 :  13:33:27  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
It scares me a little too... I don't want to think about a person who's brain is hooked up to a computer... living in a virtual world all the time.

I am a big fan of nature and I know how strange that sounds. I mean, we are nature. I love growing plants and getting dirty and swimming in the ocean even when the water is brown! So when I think of Paradise on Earth... its definately people, and earth, and plants.

Maybe you're both right... Maybe what is needed is balance. Like the famous Greek proverb goes: "All things in moderation!"

 http://lhandslide.com
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Freddy
Hooked Member



United Kingdom
257 Posts

Posted - Sep 13 2007 :  14:44:34  Show Profile  Visit Freddy's Homepage
I agree - moderation is the key. To be honest I don't think I would personally get that addicted to SL because it just isn't that realistic (yet). I mean the graphics are dated, the interface is cumbersome and some areas take an age to load even on a fast PC. I am far more likely to get addicted to games than this.

It's an interesting experience but there's not a lot to hold me there for very long, even though I like visiting my friends like Gamer and Alady - to be honest I would rather see my friends in some fantasy Role Playing Game then we really could have some fun - but you can't have everything.

www.aidreams.co.uk

Edited by - Freddy on Sep 13 2007 14:46:30
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Alpha_2501
Curious Member



9 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  05:58:59  Show Profile
quote:
And I guess I just miss him cause he is a really good person. I didn't mean to be bashing your new found fad. We used to email each other quite often, and it was fun. Maybe he didn't think so.


I haven't been in SL too much, when I received my first "email from SL" I felt something like "Oops that's it...". I just came to SL to speak with V-Hs in a V-W, very ironic indeed isn't it? But forced am I to quote you to notice the paradox we have to deal with, your relation ship with your friend [seems] based on [virtual] email! Maybe we have a lot to learn about being detached of our own "egotrip" existence, if so then the merging worlds are bringing up "zenitude". Now zenitude can be equal to "freedom servitude" I agree, but this is just a point of view, an opinion, an act of faith. When we see how controversial can be SL, how many times you read or hear "creepy", "scary" about the last tech breakthroughs, we could sense some resistance in there but I guess I am being paranoid :D.
Nevertheless this is as fascinating as it can be dangerous for sure...
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jackgephart
Hooked Member



USA
463 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  11:07:09  Show Profile
I promise I'm not here to judge you or SL. But I am sad that a relationship that I had with a friend (by the way I never really met this person in real life, but he has helped me very much in many ways) is very distant and it just makes me sad. I know I put a lot of time and effort into making and keeping up the things on my website but I would always have time to stop and "smell the roses" if need be. I just still ask that all who use SL remember that there is still a real life.

Jack Gephart
denise.gephart@mchsi.com
http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=0
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  11:23:27  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
I miss him too Jack... (I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about.........)

 http://lhandslide.com
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  19:30:57  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by jackgephart

I promise I'm not here to judge you or SL. But I am sad that a relationship that I had with a friend (by the way I never really met this person in real life, but he has helped me very much in many ways) is very distant and it just makes me sad. I know I put a lot of time and effort into making and keeping up the things on my website but I would always have time to stop and "smell the roses" if need be. I just still ask that all who use SL remember that there is still a real life.


Yes Guys, More than two of us miss him, and her. I understand the draw for each of them, and even Vit. But it is a place I will not follow. And a place I am fairly sure it is hard to return from for many.

Reality provides its own rewards, which are amazing. However, whether you are watching or not, Reality will also exact its own price, a price you have no option but to pay.

May their bill be small compared to the SL value they receive.

Uncle Jim (e=mc2)

Edited by - laackejim on Sep 14 2007 19:45:47
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Freddy
Hooked Member



United Kingdom
257 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2007 :  21:49:10  Show Profile  Visit Freddy's Homepage
Each to their own I think...I like to escape life by playing RPG's, Gamer and Alady have SL, other people want a machine to act like a human, it's all pretty crazy really and then again a lot of the time it isn't. Like they say 'Variety is the Spice of Life'.

I am sure we will hear from them soon. Think of it as if they are on holiday...oh and PaleRider is too lol, we're all nuts we are.

www.aidreams.co.uk

Edited by - Freddy on Sep 14 2007 21:56:47
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