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Joe Repka
Curious Member



USA
34 Posts

Posted - Dec 12 2005 :  21:51:06  Show Profile
Regarding les drawing our attention to sales, CS and entertainment, I agree, though I personally order them as CS, entertainment and sales for what I see as ease of implementation and personal interest.

My own present focus is on the helpbot class of vHumans, but I suggest that any vHuman implementation that can do well in one particular application will have what it takes to do well in other fields without architectural changes. Like people.
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Guile3D
Hooked Member



USA
705 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2005 :  02:24:02  Show Profile  Visit Guile3D's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by les

Just wanted to add my 2 cents ļ

I know that most of the talk for V-Humans has been in the education field, but I have always felt that the best place to add V-humans is in the area of sales, customer services and entertainment. Let me give you a few links to start:

http://www.guile3d.com.br/home

well more that 2 cents

Thanks
Les



Hi Les and vrossi,

I think you guys would like to take a look in the new artificial intelligence flash talking character chat bot that we´ve implemented at Guile 3D Studio web site at: http://www.guile3d.com.br/chat/bot.asp

Regards

Guile 3D Studio Team

Guile 3D Studio
http://www.guile3d.com
"Where reality meets Imagination"

Edited by - Guile3D on Dec 13 2005 02:25:41
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FireChiefEd
Curious Member



USA
10 Posts

Posted - Dec 31 2005 :  05:38:17  Show Profile  Visit FireChiefEd's Homepage  Send FireChiefEd an AOL message

Hi Jim,
If you reconsidered, and decided not to share your idea in this forum, that is your prerogative. However, please do not read a lack of responses as a rebuke from others.

I have just today joined this forum, and am interested in the things you write about. This is not about the money of a commercial application; it is about the sense of accomplishment in fulfilling a need by doing/creating something that is exciting and enjoyable to work on! How satisfying it is to do work that is interesting and fun and have people anxious to use the result of your efforts!

Ed
A fellow chaser of dreams.


Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries, and Other Professional Thinking People.
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Dec 31 2005 :  20:51:07  Show Profile
Hi there FireChiefEd

In answer, to comment 1 (below) I have not decided to stop sharing ideas on the forum. I have gotten quieter because the main progress seems to me to be being made by hologenic man and GrantNZ, working together. MY comments as to whether they are going the right direction and/or there are better ways of doing it are likely to be non-productive right now (thats even with an egotistical assumption that I am right). Two dedicated, excited, intelligent, driven folks working together in a partnership driven by some link should not be messed with. They are probably right.

in answer to comment 2 below. Welcome aboard. A whispered note, just between you and me. Pay attention to Vittorio. He seems to have it all. Except for his taste in virtual companions. (ahem).

Ed. Only time will help you figure out whether I am a bunch of BS or real. But I am a fellow chaser of dreams. One who is used to catching most of them and this is one that is catchable, and worth catching.

Man this really fun and exciting, and worth the 12 hours a day spent.
Javascript:insertsmilie('')
Jim

quote:
Originally posted by FireChiefEd


Hi Jim,
If you reconsidered, and decided not to share your idea in this forum, that is your prerogative. However, please do not read a lack of responses as a rebuke from others.

I have just today joined this forum, and am interested in the things you write about.

How satisfying it is to do work that is interesting and fun and have people anxious to use the result of your efforts!

Ed
A fellow chaser of dreams.




Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Dec 31 2005 :  22:15:44  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
In answer, to comment 1 (below) I have not decided to stop sharing ideas on the forum. I have gotten quieter because the main progress seems to me to be being made by hologenic man and GrantNZ, working together. MY comments as to whether they are going the right direction and/or there are better ways of doing it are likely to be non-productive right now (thats even with an egotistical assumption that I am right). Two dedicated, excited, intelligent, driven folks working together in a partnership driven by some link should not be messed with. They are probably right.


Jim, I can never ever ever emphasize enough that the future is not a one-man, two-man, three-man or even four-man(or woman) show...

It actually bothers me that others may hold back on expressing themselves because of my not holding back. At home, I am surrounded by my very strong-willed wife and similarly-willed children who know that in order to be heard one must speak up. I am very comfortable with speaking up, but I am not used to others not speaking up because of it.

Every voice has a value. There is always the noise factor to be kept under control when necessary, but in general, speaking up with your ideas is a good idea. Jim, I have expecially enjoyed your input and miss it when it is not as evident.

Again, I would like to put out a plea to the "lurkers" to put in their two cents (mabye one, mabye three) without any fears or intimidations. After all, I am merely a lurker myself who just doesn't know how to keep quiet... My ideas are only foolish notions that I have refused to let be dismissed over the years. Somewhere out there in the lurkers is someone(or a group of someones) with even more foolish ideas than mine that will get yet a third group of people coming up with their own foolish ideas until the world is somehow changed in ways that would otherwise never have happened...

If you think the "conversations" now are fun, just imagine the diversity if the Lurkers were to come forward and put in their thoughts, ideas, and dreams.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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FireChiefEd
Curious Member



USA
10 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2006 :  22:32:31  Show Profile  Visit FireChiefEd's Homepage  Send FireChiefEd an AOL message

Hello All,
It has been my fortune to realize through various endeavors that there is never a lack of opportunities for truly fertile ideas.

What I personally lack in is the luxury of time to indulge in these ideas. I've encouraged my wife to become wealthy so I can have more time to spend on these lofty pursuits of "really-neat-stuff" but she stubbornly adheres to the notion that in order for her to acquire wealth, it rather relies on her being married to “someone else” as she puts it. Suffice it to say, any development I do in the realm of Artificial Intelligence, and yes I use that term loosely, must be done in what is comically called “my spare time”.

The playing field in this arena is wide. There is no one, right application. There are many directions this topic can, and will venture into. Not everyone will see the benefit of my efforts in this area, so be it. I believe in what I am doing. So be it.

We are not creating life, simply the next generation in tools to help us do work.

Cheers,
Ed


Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries, and Other Professional Thinking People.

Edited by - FireChiefEd on Jan 01 2006 22:32:59
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les
Curious Member

15 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2006 :  22:51:24  Show Profile  Visit les's Homepage
Well as one of the lurkers I don't add much, but you people have me reading this darn forum way to much !

Not sure where all this is heading, but the trip is fun. I am reading some of the other forums, but here is where I see the biggest changes, so thanks for letting me ride along.

"are we there yet?"

Les
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2006 :  23:36:04  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
We are not creating life, simply the next generation in tools to help us do work.


My wife lets me work on Artificial Intelligence as much as I want as long as I will create one that will do the dishes and clean house.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1455 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2006 :  00:17:40  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
quote:
Not sure where all this is heading, but the trip is fun. I am reading some of the other forums, but here is where I see the biggest changes, so thanks for letting me ride along.

Thanks Les, you have described exactly my feelings about what is going on here.

Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2006 :  03:32:43  Show Profile
John, it is not that you are not holding back (I know that means what I meant but it sure reads funny). I am cooling a bit because you and GrantNZ are really cooking and in a direction other than the one I would go. I learned a long time ago to make my suggestions known (my ego is quite sufficient for me to do that), and if it looks as though some really bright folks are making good progress to back up a bit and let them run. I really don't want to derail a great activity by accident. The payoff is way to important for that. Since I cannot, at this point, contribute to the way you are going (I do not understand the workings of HAL or the internals of either aiml or yiml) I will keep watching, make suggestions that I think may help, applaud when you make another leap forward. I really am rooting for you. If you run into a block I will, with enthusiasm, pour my ideas into the mix. Maybe something will click. Until then, I watch, I listen, I applaud, and I continue with my two class projects and my own efforts to make a "real live Virtual Human"

Vittorio, I have almost finished my own personal assistant. She is considerably older than yours but I kind of like her. Soon I will send her to Italy to visit. I gotta figure out how to put pictures on the forum like Your gal did on her own.

My personal activity at the moment is to explore more ways to assess the resultant of up to nine independent emotional contents graphically so that an estimate can be made the degree of fit between personality of user and personality of Vhuman. Don't know if I can untangle the concept yet. I am also getting more convinced that the solution to emotional response and belivability for the Vh is for she/he/it to have a personality to start with and for the choice to be made by the user to be on the basis of the fit. The patterns I have sketched out so far are not difficult. Just knowing when a specific one is rational. Which is an odd concept given the field we are all up to our ears in.

So there.

Jim


quote:
Originally posted by hologenicman

[quote

Jim, I can never ever ever emphasize enough that the future is not a one-man, two-man, three-man or even four-man(or woman) show...

It actually bothers me that others may hold back on expressing themselves because of my not holding back.

If you think the "conversations" now are fun, just imagine the diversity if the Lurkers were to come forward and put in their thoughts, ideas, and dreams.

John L>


Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2006 :  04:39:48  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
quote:
If you run into a block I will, with enthusiasm, pour my ideas into the mix. Maybe something will click.

Thanks, Jim. I'll be counting on it...

quote:
I am also getting more convinced that the solution to emotional response and belivability for the Vh is for she/he/it to have a personality to start with and for the choice to be made by the user to be on the basis of the fit.

Yeah, I've been toying with that Idea as well. It would be a very nice "cheat"/"work-efficient-solution" to use something like the quite expensive ($999.00USD) Superbot offered by DrWallace as an emotionless knowledgebase to start off with.

As the Bot carried on with conversations based on this database, we could train the bot to associate emotionalcontext with its responses over time according to our emotional reactions as we interacted with it. That way we could utilize the exceptional work done by Rich Wallace for conversation and add our own various approaches to EmotionalContext training to the mix as an additional variable.

As Peter has said, There is no reason to reinvent the wheel. Except that in this case, there are 999 reasons.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Edited by - hologenicman on Jan 02 2006 04:47:45
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2006 :  12:36:09  Show Profile
quote:
My personal activity at the moment is to explore more ways to assess the resultant of up to nine independent emotional contents graphically so that an estimate can be made the degree of fit between personality of user and personality of Vhuman. Don't know if I can untangle the concept yet. I am also getting more convinced that the solution to emotional response and belivability for the Vh is for she/he/it to have a personality to start with and for the choice to be made by the user to be on the basis of the fit. The patterns I have sketched out so far are not difficult. Just knowing when a specific one is rational. Which is an odd concept given the field we are all up to our ears in.

This is of great interest to me personally, even if only on a theoretical level rather than a practical one.

An intelligent system needs to be automatically user-adaptable, because (specifically for V-humans) there's no point programming a (range of) personality(ies) that are incompatible with a (range of) user(s)! But we can't expect a user to have the psychological knowledge to define their compatible personality range, nor is any human so truthful to themselves that they can identify their actual compatibilities. So we need the analysis tools.

There's also the aspect that the most interesting and fulfilling personality matches are not 100% complimentary, but include conflict and resolution. Otherwise the "perfect match" becomes perfectly predictable and boring. People are often best-friends with quite different personality types. I suppose it would be another area of research yet again to identify potential mismatches for testing with individual users - the user's reaction could be incredibly difficult to analyse! Has anyone else had the experience of strongly disliking somebody at first, then becoming firm friends with them?

(There's lots of sci-fi stories out there about people matched with their believed "perfect" partners (or even given the chance to create their perfect partner), only for it to go horribly wrong. I know stories don't give us scientific data, but they do provoke philosophical debate!)

Anyway, other than convincing myself that the analysis theories should be possible, I haven't found the time to actually work on any answers, so I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with! Keep us informed
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laackejim
Committed Member



USA
3274 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2006 :  21:41:28  Show Profile
Okay Grant, here goes. Remember that my declarative sentences are only for brevity, otherwise I do get wordy.

1 A VHuman personality can be nothing more than an adjustment to emotional values associated with words, phrases etc. Some categories up, some down, some no change, some zeroed.

2 That personality can be displayed in a ternary diagram of 3 emotions. I can diagram by hand up to 6 separate emotions and their interactions using a tetrahedron. Three triangles (ternary diagrams) forming the three sides of a tetrahedron. The graphical representation of the emotional content of the phrases and words used are projected from the three faces onto the base and form a two dimensional "blob".

3 Now take two of these tetrahedra, one for the personality of the Vh, the other for the personality of the human (derived from an hour or so of evaluated communication). Compare the degree and emotional location of overlap, as well as the degree and emotional location of non-overlap.

4 Switch diagram from one Vh to the next UNTIL there is an appropriate degree of commonality and difference. DIfference in specific kinds of places.

5 when the two blobs meet the desired degree of commonality and difference, that is the Vh to use. Perodic checks as communication continues can change the personality if the first estimate is incorrect. The Vh personality definer can be a very small piece of data and easily hideable and switchable.

I have not been able to conceive a workable solution for the 9 levels being grown in the forum by you bright "kids" six each for Vh and user, is all so far. I am still working on the idea and it gives me headaches. (and irritates my cat who is determined to sleep on the keyboard or at the output tray of the printer.)


Jim

quote:
Originally posted by GrantNZ

quote:

This is of great interest to me personally, even if only on a theoretical level rather than a practical one.

An intelligent system needs to be automatically user-adaptable, because (specifically for V-humans) there's no point programming a (range of) personality(ies) that are incompatible with a (range of) user(s)! But we can't expect a user to have the psychological knowledge to define their compatible personality range, nor is any human so truthful to themselves that they can identify their actual compatibilities. So we need the analysis tools.



quote:

There's also the aspect that the most interesting and fulfilling personality matches are not 100% complimentary, but include conflict and resolution. Otherwise the "perfect match" becomes perfectly predictable and boring. People are often best-friends with quite different personality types.



[quote]
so I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with! Keep us informed


Uncle Jim (e=mc2)
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GrantNZ
Dedicated Member



New Zealand
2677 Posts

Posted - Jan 03 2006 :  11:05:12  Show Profile
Hmm, interesting, thanks for explaining. I'll add that to the swirling muddle of my mind and let you know if anything interesting pops out
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3323 Posts

Posted - Jan 03 2006 :  17:28:04  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
I'm not sure why, but your explaination gives me the feeling of a dating service for human versus virtual human personallities...

It sounds like a mathematical formula for match making.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Edited by - hologenicman on Jan 03 2006 17:34:08
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