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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2013 :  13:47:17  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
Hi All,

I came to the forum looking for news of competitions, etc for V-Humans.

I'm planning to have a go at the Turing (Loebner) test and others.
My approach is wildly different from the norm and I'm looking for anyone and everyone to bounce ideas off - please follow along on facebook by searching for 'Mind Loop'.

I promise - this project will knock your socks off... : )

vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1455 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2013 :  18:04:10  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
Hi HarrayAI.

welcome to our Forum.

I suppose this is the direct link:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mind-Loop/389251031162711?fref=ts

Could you please give us here an overview of your different approach, since your facebook page does not contain many information?

Thank you

Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3324 Posts

Posted - Jan 08 2013 :  07:49:53  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
I liked your page.

Looking forward to following your project.

As Vittorio said, if you could post your overview and discussion here on the forum, you may find some rewarding interaction.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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art
Moderator



USA
375 Posts

Posted - Jan 08 2013 :  13:25:14  Show Profile
Thanks, John, I just mentioned the same thing on another AI forum.
A lot of people don't frequent the social network / busybody sites and I think his ideas would be far better served at an AI based site. Just my opinion!

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Jan 08 2013 :  17:56:55  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
I hope you get something done. I've seen them come and I've seen them go. Mostly go. So why don't you show us what you're made of?

 http://lhandslide.com
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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 09 2013 :  11:52:49  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
Thanks, all, for your interest! By way of a brief taster for what I'm up to I can offer the following...

I've been formulating an idea for entry in the various instantiations of the Turing Test and other Chatbot competitions for a while now. My main idea was that, assuming the program is tricking the judges into thinking its Joe Bloggs off the street, I'd have a strong 'backstory' including some representation of the room where Joe is sitting, the chair, his backpack on the floor, an open window - street noise etc.

Most recently - I realized that this would still be a trick, and we all know that lies are harder to work with than the truth. So.. I decided to change perspective, and create a simulated world where the 'bot would live.
The key to the whole project being that the 'bot would have no reason to believe its not a human in the real world.
Now - we're no longer trying to trick clever judges - we just have to trick the 'bot.

Some features of the simulation will be:
It will be in sync with real world time and location (thus I can pull in weather conditions/ sun position etc).
Basic biological functions will be modelled ( need for food / sleep etc)
The bot may use social networks / forums (where allowed)
It can have a virtual kindle and read real books!
Food modelled in voxels anyone?

I'm not saying that I can manage all this at a satisfactory level, but as a programmer with 20 years experience, I'm gonna give it a really good try! ; )

NOTE: please don't imagine a rich 3D environment for the bot, it will be a more abstract representation (think of the model that a robot might build up of a room for example.) Points labelling things <there is an apple at 34,636,143>

All thoughts greatly received!
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2013 :  11:13:38  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
quote:
NOTE: please don't imagine a rich 3D environment for the bot, it will be a more abstract representation (think of the model that a robot might build up of a room for example.)


Why not? You could do something similar like the Sims or AiBliss. That's what I'm working on now. I realize you are just starting but it's totally posssible if you just keep at it. You could have a full 3D environment and bots interacting with each other as people, animals, even clouds can be Aized.

Keep us updated.

 http://lhandslide.com
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art
Moderator



USA
375 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2013 :  11:15:13  Show Profile
Interesting approach guys...

Hold onto your socks!!

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 10 2013 :  12:53:24  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
Yeah - the Sims does look like a good environment for AIs - which the games sort of prove (NPC's etc). (I mean to look at your projects - just need to find the time :)

Don't get me wrong - I'd like it to be as rich as possible but:
1. Full colour 3d might not be necessary for my plans. The world is just 3d points and lines at the moment - and even the lines are just for the viewers benefit.
2. I'd like it to run smoothly on a laptop - perhaps simulating a number of 'people'
3. I'm planning to use OpenStreetMap and similar to know what the world 'looks' like - and they don't provide 3D : )

That said I do plan 3D food (as I think food is a big part of the human experience). I don't think polygons will come up to scratch here which is why I'm thinking voxel food. (Will try and get an example food render running ASAP so I can test it out and you can see what I'm getting at)

Cheers.

Edited by - HarrayAI on Jan 10 2013 14:43:26
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art
Moderator



USA
375 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2013 :  03:30:25  Show Profile
Personally, I'd just like to see someone create a decent, chatbot that could converse with a sense of understanding and meaning instead of simply parroting words and disconnected, patterned phrases back to the user. Most of these phrases are fillers and have little to no contextual significance with regard to the conversation. They often tend to rely on asking a continuing series of leading questions and vague statements in order to keep the chat flowing with little regard to topical answer to the user's questions.

In the near future, people are going to want and need a friend to talk with, artificial or not. If this conversational entity is to be taken seriously, it needs to be armed with enough savvy to be able to at least comprehend the subtle nuances of speech, usage, grammar along with wit / humor, wisdom or being able to retrieve information, facts, data to satisfy the user.

If a decent face can later accompany this "brain-enabled" chatbot, then so much the better. If then a believable 3D environment in which to "house" said entity, then it's "icing on the cake" but it should be the user's choice.

I personally believe that the computer itself or the entire house is going to house the "AI entity" and not a character on a screen for a lot of people. The house will be as intelligent as you care to make it and it will be able to control many facets of life within the home as well as being a personal assistant, companion, nanny, security observer, etc. It will become something that one will simply not be able to do without. It's almost here now. The smart homes are quite a reality and have been for years. All that's needed is an intelligent "Being" to assist with the vocal skills and understanding in order to make it a reality.

Just some thoughts....

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2013 :  07:18:29  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
We're getting there Art... we really are. It's only a matter of time. I think I'll definitely see it in my life time. Either I will create her or someone else will probably Apple or Microsoft or Google.

The new technology is around the corner... I can feel it. In ten more years we'll have avatars to talk to that sound just like a real person. I guarantee it.

In the meantime... we just have to wait and work on our own stuff. Who knows...? One of us might actually make it into the big leagues. So keep working on those chatbots!


 http://lhandslide.com
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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2013 :  13:20:08  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
Amen to all of that.

For myself, I'm not looking to script any conversational stimulus => responses - so I see the environmental modelling as a way to give the bot an 'appreciation' of human life. (I also think that 'embodiment' of a bot, even simulated embodiment, will lead to more complete AI).

I am also onboard with the home automation side of things.(I use tellstick with home-easy and x10 plugs). If I'm working in the lounge and it gets dark, I might want the nearest lamp in the room to be turned on. In order to do that you need to know the layout of the room.

I have a fun item on my road-map that will make use of home automation -I'll let you know when I get to it.

Edited by - HarrayAI on Jan 11 2013 23:01:51
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2082 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2013 :  07:32:17  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
Sounds like a really fun project. What language are you using to code the software? I use Vb6, .Net, and c++ mostly.

So what you're trying to do is create Ai to guide a robot through a virtual world? Did I get the jist of it?



 http://lhandslide.com
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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2013 :  13:40:38  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
The languages I've used most are Java and CSharpe... My current job is Java so this project is in CSharpe.

My intent for the system as I currently see it is an AI that has a 'body' and lives in a real-time simulation of the real world* - and deals with it's everyday life just as we do (eg has a job or is a student etc).

The first application of the system would be to take part in some Turing tests and similar - but it's not trying to trick anyone, because it doesn't know its not human.

:)

* The simulation will be populated with some scripted entities (NPC's if you will) that will provide people for the AI to interact with. Think of a cross between the movies Matrix and 'The Truman Show' - Except, Truman is an AI and the whole world is a simulation for his benefit!
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art
Moderator



USA
375 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2013 :  21:20:51  Show Profile
So let me get this straight...

An AI that has a body.
I'd call that an android or perhaps a Robot.

Lives in a Real-Time ("Reality" based).
Simulation - pretended or not real.
real world = well...the real world I guess.

It is the simulation that deals with everyday life as we do.

Basically I'm guessing this is something like SIMS on STEROIDS or something similar. Their Avatar is or will be tasked with various assignments or be labeled as a Businessman, Doctor, Engineer, Laborer, Sports star, etc. and will carry out a series of programmed events that make up it's core. Interesting...Programmable Sims (or not).

The Turing Test part has me a bit confused as it's a pretty difficult test and so far no one has won it!

This should prove to be interesting and I can't wait to see it unfold. I wish you luck in your pursuits!!

(a lot of my above postings are simply shots in the dark and were not meant to harass you in any way so do look at the lighter side of things here).

Best!

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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HarrayAI
Curious Member



11 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2013 :  11:10:12  Show Profile  Visit HarrayAI's Homepage
Art,

I'm having trouble finding an easy way to express the whole idea (it's quite open ended which doesn't help).

You're right about the AI / Android thing - that comes back to embodiment I think. There is a view that you can't have real AI without a body to control and receive feedback from.
If a brain lives from birth in a jar, it can't have a useful understanding of red,green, 15kg or squishy.

So, as to the entity i'm creating - it's an AI controlling a simulated human body - the Sims is a fair analogy I think.

Thanks for your patience ; )

Edited by - HarrayAI on Jan 14 2013 13:48:50
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