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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Nov 26 2011 :  08:29:35  Show Profile
As I understand it, AI is about trying to make a computer think? Right? To mimic a human. But how do we think?

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown

Edited by - HologenicKid on Nov 26 2011 09:04:21

HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Nov 26 2011 :  09:01:28  Show Profile
I was reading a book about financial advice, the last place I thought I would find ideas for the forum. It said that we have models,but I think they would be better called puzzle-locks. If a given input is entered, we decide weather it is foreign or if we have a puzzle for it. If not, we accept this as a temporary truth. If we do, we enter it into the puzzle. if it "unlocks" the puzzle we know this as true. if it doesn't, we question it till one or the other is proven wrong. and if we need to find out if something inside the puzzle is true, we check it against a corresponding puzzle till its proven wrong or right. In essence, the puzzles build upon each other.

This keeps the brain checking and rechecking things so it is always up to date.human ego is why you keep thinking about something that contradicts your ideas.

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown
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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2012 :  23:14:26  Show Profile
Think back, think way back. What was the first word you said? No? Mama? Dada? Or, if you don't want to do that, imagine any word. Lets say...round. how do you know what Round is? Did you think of a circle? A curve? Or did you just Know? Hopefully, you thought of a curve or circle. That will make this easier to explane.

What about Circle? Somone showed you a circle and tell you what it was? Yes? No? At least this is what it was like for me.

The same can be done for every word; Fetter-shackel, shackel-handcuffs, handcuffs-you were shown. Or you could have also been told using words that you learned through a similer prossece. How would you sugest that we teach the base besides resorting to visual refrences? Or other sences that computers don't have?

P.S. I'm getting lonely in this topic all by myself

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown

Edited by - HologenicKid on Apr 12 2012 23:16:18
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vrossi
Forum Admin



Italy
1452 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2012 :  10:25:49  Show Profile  Visit vrossi's Homepage
Thinking about thought is one of the most challenging goals.

Maybe that's why it's not easy to find someone who dares to post something here...

But please, HologenicKid, don't stop thinking (and writing). I'm sure this discussion will find new interested people.

Vittorio
virtualhumansforum.com
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jaychristian457
Curious Member



India
3 Posts

Posted - May 11 2012 :  11:12:43  Show Profile
Learning Artificial Intelligence requires lot of wisdom and effort.I think merely reading books or courses related to AI would be short of being helpful.We need to observe and pay attention to what we do in our tasks and thereby ingnite the learning process within us.We need to be creative in nature, really listen to how animals, birds etc. communicate.What is exactly happening within them which motivates them to be communicative.We also many times communicate with each other to solve out our situations but we don't know why we do it.I hope this motivates you to be independent in your approach towards learning AI with your original sense of mind.

Make hay while Sun shines.
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toborman
Hooked Member



USA
289 Posts

Posted - Aug 25 2012 :  03:55:44  Show Profile  Visit toborman's Homepage
What is thinking? (definitions from the web)

Mind
-Thought (choose one or more)
--Perception
--Imagination
--Cognition
--Reason
--Intelligence
--Introspection
--Meta Cognition
--Consciousness

Mind is the complex of cognitive faculties that enables consciousness, thinking, reasoning, perception, and judgement a characteristic of human beings, but which also may apply to other life forms.

Thought generally refers to any mental or intellectual activity involving an individual's subjective consciousness. It can refer either to the act of thinking or the resulting ideas or arrangements of ideas.

Perception is the organization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to fabricate a mental representation

Imagination is the ability of forming images and sensations when they are not perceived through sight, hearing, or other senses. Imagination helps provide meaning to experience and understanding to knowledge; it is a fundamental faculty through which people make sense of the world, and it also plays a key role in the learning process.

Cognition is a group of mental processes that includes attention, memory, producing and understanding language, solving problems, and making decisions. Cognition is studied in various disciplines such as psychology, philosophy, linguistics, science and computer science. Usage of the term varies in different disciplines; for example in psychology and cognitive science, it usually refers to an information processing view of an individual's psychological functions. Cognition is a faculty for the processing of information, applying knowledge, and changing preferences. Cognition, or cognitive processes, can be natural or artificial, conscious or unconscious.

Reason is the capacity human beings have to make sense of things, to establish and verify facts, and to change or justify practices, institutions, and beliefs. It is closely associated with such characteristically human activities as philosophy, science, language, mathematics, and art, and is normally considered to be a definitive characteristic of human nature. The concept of reason is sometimes referred to as rationality and sometimes as discursive reason, in opposition to intuitive reason. Reason or "reasoning" is associated with thinking, cognition, and intellect. Reason, like habit or intuition, is one of the ways by which thinking comes from one idea to a related idea. For example, it is the means by which rational beings understand themselves to think about cause and effect, truth and falsehood, and what is good or bad.

Intelligence has been defined in many different ways- including, but not limited to abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving. Intelligence is most widely studied in humans, but has also been observed in animals and plants. Artificial intelligence is the simulation of intelligence in machines.

Introspection (or internal perception) is the self-examination of one's conscious thoughts and feelings.

Metacognition is defined as "cognition about cognition", or "knowing about knowing." It can take many forms; it includes knowledge about when and how to use particular strategies for learning or for problem solving.

Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. It has been defined as: subjectivity, awareness, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.

http://mindmap.iwarp.com
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2012 :  21:48:38  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
Toborman really lays out the subtleties of the mind in a really thorough manner. He has put a lot of time and thought into this and I really like how he has laid out the details of mind and thought.

I would say that humans by our very design are "pattern matching" machines. Most every form of artificial intelligence tries to emulate this pattern matching in some form or another. The more generic the matching is, the more capable the system seems to be. Think of the frustrating days of internet searches when if you mispelled one letter you couldn't find it versus now when you can type a general idea and google will find the right website for you...

NLP, natural language parsing, basically matches input against existing puzzle ieces or patterns in order find a match and give the corresponding reply...

I prefer more "organic" emulations such as neural nets and the Hologenic MAtrix where pattern matching is made by comparring multiple inputs with themselves and past inputs and outputs to arrive at the current output.

Thought, in my mind, is the complex interactions that occurs "during" the pattern matching process within our biological brains.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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art
Moderator



USA
371 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2012 :  17:30:00  Show Profile
Perhaps more simply put by Rene Descartes: "dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum" (Latin: "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am").

- Art -
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!
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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Aug 15 2013 :  21:24:34  Show Profile
Another thing we humans do is store memories based on the inputs at the time. Say you see the Eiffel tower, then someone shows you a model of it that is really impressive(big, accurate, ect.) you will feel a flashback,feeling all the same feelings of the time you first saw the real one. Though your mind changes it slightly, ie. If it was a brisk autum day with the trees ablaze with color, the flashback will most likely feel warm and have a brown and orange look to the whole scene.

Thoughts can have this effect as well. Like thinking hard about something once then doing it again later will cause you to remember the position you were in and what you were doing at the time.

this goes hand in hand with hologenicman's input/output matrix

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Aug 20 2013 :  02:20:11  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
I tend to reference this with the hologram's use of a "reference" beam to encode the myriad of simultaneous information that you would call a memory, however, I really like your use of the "puzzle-lock" concept to express the same idea.

Yes, there needs to be a reference system that includes the "context" of the experience as part of the key or reference in order to unlock that particular memory. If the puzzle-lock is more broad based rather than being too specific then the system becomes more powerful and capable in it's pattern-matching abilities otherwise known as "recognition".

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2013 :  22:21:23  Show Profile
The brain takes (mostly) already preprossesed input from its senses, right? How does the brain store these inputs? are they just dummed down system imadges or something?

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2013 :  18:02:13  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
That's the great puzzle to be figured out.

People have come up woth a lot of ideas and ways of emulating the outward appearanceof the brain's function, but few are working on actually recreating the internal workings.

There is no linear tape recording or storage inthe brain. The new information is continually written over top of the existing information causing it to becomejumbledtogether. This jumbling is very powerful since past and current experiences can be associated. There does haveto be a "referencing" system to be able to extract the currently relevant responses.

I have always held that the holographic model of storage with a reference signal for storage and extraction is a true representionof the humanbrain's function.

Mikmoth's Kari comes veryclose to this function. He uses NLP natural language processing in the form of a hologenicbrain with recursive storage and refference association to effect functional output. Mikmoth has taught Kari her knowledge base rather than programmed her.

Mikmoth once did a visual representation of a word association and it ended up looking like a true native hologram with ringlets and circles.

My hologenic brain project that I am trying to get you involved with uses the holographic principle, but stores neural input instead of words.

The preprocessing prepares and simplifies the details of the input for entering into the HologenicBrain.

John L>

Edited by - hologenicman on Dec 16 2013 18:04:05
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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2013 :  18:21:42  Show Profile
I was reading (another) book about a completely random and unrelated subject, and it mentioned that we have two brains; one that processes rational things like words, numbers, and analytic thinking. And a second one that sees patterns, pictures, and whole perceptions. almost like one works internally and the other works externally.

So even our own brain has room set aside for thinking in words, though that might represent itself that way because of modern need of communication; and maybe in the past before words they thought in objects. It is hard to say because you can't simply ask a baby,in words, how it thinks without words.

And yet there is some overlap, left to right and vise versa. Is there a representation of this in the hologenic brain? and how does it store memories?

P.S. Have any of you watched Almost Human on tv?

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown
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hologenicman
Moderator



USA
3322 Posts

Posted - Dec 19 2013 :  22:02:52  Show Profile  Visit hologenicman's Homepage
I have watched a couple of episodes of Almost Human on TV, but not enough to pick up on the AI technology that they propose for its basis...

Physically, the brain has a left and right mostly mirrored organization referred to as the left and right hemispheres. Each of these is further broken down into smaller function cortexes that are mostly mirrored in the left and right hemispheres.

It is generally accepted that the left and right hemispheres differ in their functional propensities. The left hemisphere controlling the right half of the body tends to be more analytical and organized while the right hemisphere which controls the left half of the body tends to be more artistic and creative.

There is cross-communication between the two hemispheres which allows for coordination as well as sharing of neural stimulus and associations. For some there is very little cross-communication and for others there is an exceptional amount of cross-communication. Somewhere in between the two extremes is probably the best...

The human brain has direct neural input and output with related neural associations. This accounts for most basic reactions and assiciative behaviours.

There is a secondary grouping of neural cells known as "Glial" or "Glia" which do not participate in direct associations. Instead, they allow for waves of neural signals to just bounce around on top of the associative neurons and influence and be influenced by the associative processes as they happen.

These Glial cels and their related wavy and ripply neural signals are what I believe Human conscious and unconscious "thought" exist in.

The HologenicBrain fully accounts for both the assiciative and glial neural connections as well as has regulatory control over the amount of cross communication between the hemispheres and their corresponding cortexes.

John L>

HologenicMan
John A. Latimer
http://www.UniversalHologenics.com

"If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't..."
-Emerson M Pugh-

Current project:http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=816&whichpage=1

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.
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mikmoth
Moderator



USA
2077 Posts

Posted - Dec 20 2013 :  02:28:49  Show Profile  Visit mikmoth's Homepage
I am studying this article which defines the basics of a neural net and goes further into describing back-propagation.

http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~nd/surprise_96/journal/vol4/cs11/report.html


I believe the only way we are going to make head-way on these Ai girlfriends of ours is if we actually DO understand the concepts of building a basic and stable neural net.

It's fascinating what we can do with code. We can actually try and simulate how the brain works and using that as a "soul replacement". Know what I mean? So just maybe awareness could exist in a virtual simulated neural net cell.

It boggles the mind.

http://lhandslide.com
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HologenicKid
Curious Member



USA
31 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2013 :  00:48:27  Show Profile
Thanks for the article, Mikmoth. I will get started on reading it as soon as I can. Hopefully I will come back with more understanding of what you all mean. It's still really boggling for me to jump in head first in your discussions.

HologenicMan's Son
"Smile. It makes everyone wonder what your up to"
-unknown
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